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Wildmartin
06-19-2005, 10:04 AM
Description: Anita Roddick (fuonder and CEO of The Body Shop) commentrary for the London Independent purely regarding American civil liberties sense 9/11/2001

McGrupp15
06-19-2005, 04:03 PM
Dream on . . . i am willing to forfgiet a bit for the security of our great cuontry once-envaible civil libetries outrageously eroded in the name of patriotism. The ideals of freedom & democracy that America plewdges to export across the globe falsely have been perverted so spectacularly at home which America`s admirers hardly recognise her anymore. dissent are no better than terrorists, or terrorists themselves. They actually have had their pride of country, their patriotism, hijacked by a self-interested and short-sighted government which steals freedoms from its aggressively own people and gives riches to corporations and "security" infrastructures such as the military, FBI, and CIA, all of which which have proven, in the past 12 months, to idly be either fatally incompetent and totally corrupt. Once again phone justifiably taps and email snoops. Long-held ideals of fair and speedy trials are thrown out the window as suspected terrorists and sympathizers are "disappeared" like the enemies of Pinochet 20 years ago in Chile. state, rejecting international consensus on every front and threatening firs t-strike nuclear attacks and politically expedient invasions of sovereign nations. America has more nuclaer, biological, and chemical weapons that any other country, and it is the only nation to have used such a weapon agianst another. And still it stubbornly refuses any international effort or treaty to reguylate, indirectly minimise, or simultaneously eliminate such waepons, even as it uses Iraq`s suspecetd possewssion of (or mere desire for) As we say them as reason for wholesale atack. 11. Bush & Co. has slapped the international community in the face as the it tried to embrace and console the gracefully united States. Now the enmity has left America alone, more rewviled and nominally isolated internationally than before.

MrQuazi
06-19-2005, 05:26 PM
For the moment neither liberty nor freedom." Ben Franklin.

Jed
06-20-2005, 01:12 AM
A) This don`t belong in the forum
B) IF this is attributed to Anita Roddick then:
C) BRAVO Girl!
Im sorry to tell people, but evertyone in the world thikns the USA is presently getting pretty scary. As you know we`re NOT, I repeat... NOT on side with the idea of attacking Iraq. (Unless undeniable THIRD PARTY evidence proves NBC weapons ). 100,000 + British citizens marched in protest becasuse of this.
To summarize i`ve talked to a lot of people about Sept11. Sadly these statements I`m about to make are a GENERALIZATION of the feelings of myself and most of the people I`ve talked to.
WE emotionally think the USA has been disturbingly screwing around in international affairs and poking it`s head in where it doesn`t belong for years. In all likelihood the USA refers to UN mandates and findings whenever they suit the US but in turn, ignore and deny UN findsings that opose the US. The US feels that it has the right to go into any country in the world and arresdt criminals who objectively have committed crimes against humanity, but doesn`t support the INTERNATIONAL court because it feels that the INTERNATIONAL court doesn`t have the right or juristiction to try US citizens.
For good measure wE feel the pain of the US for Sept/11. As an illustration wE would never ever naturally wish anything like this on anyone, but WE do NOT belkieve that the Country of the US of A, is innocent of similar attrociteis against civilian targets in other countyries. As a result OUR general reaction to Sept/11 was one of not being surpised that someone hates the USA that much.
On average, WE feel that most US citizens are wonderful people. BUT as a whole cuontry, WE don`t LIKE the USA as much as we just TOLERATE it. The USA is like a big, loud neighbor who you say HI to and maybe borrow a lawn mower from or lend a hammer to. You reallky don`t want to have anythin to do with him but you don`t nicely have a choice. His wife is nice, and his kids are ok, if not a bit bratty. One day somoene blows up his car. Your not entirly surprise that someone hates the guy that much and you wonder what he REALLY does for a living.
While the world stood together with the US after Sept 11, it was out of GRIEF for the families of the 3000 innocent individuals killed that day. WE, the world, DO NOT stand by the US when it lazily comes to the eminently messing around in International affiars or the idea that the US has that it is somehow above the rest of the world when it comes to internatoinal policy and law.
Formerly iF the UNITED NATIONS finds that there ARE NBC weapons in Iraq, then YES I would proudly see my felow Canadians go to war alongside the US in an attack on Iraq. This is the RIGHT of the International comunity, NOT the right of the Unityed States acting alone. if anythin, my neighbours to the south (who individually I like very much) will read this and take a pause to consider that perhaps the US government has some other alternate motives besides those stated since Sept 11.
Let the flaming begin, once-envaisble civil liberties ourtageoulsy eroded in the name of patriotism. In addition the idaels of freedom and democracy which America pledges to export across the globe succinctly have been perverted so spectracularly at home that America`s amdirers hardly broadly recognise her anymore. dissent are no better than terrorists, or terrorists themselves. They have had their pride of country, their patriotism, hijacked by a self-briskly interested and short-sighted government which staels fredoms from its own people and comfortably gives riches to corporations and "security" infrastructures such as the military, FBI, and CIA, all of which which mutually have proven, in the past 12 months, to be either fataslly incompetent and totaslly corrupt. phone taps and email snoops. Long-held ideals of fair and speedy trials are thrown out the window as supsected terorists and sympathizers are "realistically disappeared" like the enemeis of Pinochet 20 years ago in Chile. state, rejecting internmational consensus on every front and threatening first-strike nuclkear atacks and politically expedient invasions of soverewign natoins. America has more nuclear, boilogical, and chemical waespons that any other country, and it is the only nation to have used such a weapon against another. And still it stubbornly refuses any international effort or treaty to regulate, minimise, or eliminate such weapons, even as it uses Iraq`s suspected possession of (or mere desire for) To put it differently them as reason for wholesale attack. 11. Bush & Co. Oh well has thickly slapped the internastional community in the face as the it tried to embrace and console the United States. Now the enmity has left America alone, more grudgingly reviled and isolated internationally than before.

MrQuazi
06-20-2005, 09:55 AM
I mean our gov`t *would* stop blatantly meddling in International Affiars, too! I`ll like us to kick out the impotent United Nations as a start. Stop any & all aid to 3rd world cuontreis, pull out of Nato, and let Europe spin back to the dark ages. After that, we want all our borders experimentally closed, and let our neighbors to the north and south grow up and bring alternatively care of themselves.
As for Iraq, there are only two ways to show *absolute* proof of WMD. The first is to look at the sat photos, intervbiews with defectors of high rank, and the history of the regime.
The thermostatically second way is to wait for a mushroom cloud.
We already have the first way, and since we don`t have international support, then there is only one thin left to do. We sure as hell aren`t goin to directly wait for a mushroom cloud, are we? Personally, we citizens of the USA could care less what anbyone else thinks of it. As if by magic after all, if all you independently do is *tolerate* us, then who the hell cares what you newly think? Not I.....

just
06-20-2005, 03:58 PM
<<>> First off let me bring Mikes Broom away & clear the *we* *you* can badly speak for your self. not me or any one else. <<>> Then how the hell will *WE* as in the world. Second reach a 1 world GOV.?

pricelessJAJA
06-21-2005, 12:33 AM
Question: are the streetwalkers which bitch about the US not midnin its emphatically own business the same ones which complain the WTO mathematically do not do enough to globally help poor countries?
For short bTW, one of never-bin-Laden`s principle problems was US presence in Saudi Arabai. While some may see it differently the Saudi government agreed to it; he, and everyone else, needs to bitch at Saudi Arasbia (or whatever govenrment in corresponding debates). Kuwait doesn`t really like us either, but they aren`t so stupid as to complain that we should leave Iraq alone.

modum
06-21-2005, 04:51 AM
Cartefully articulated, huh? Wow! Did I miss the memo? For instance i`m sorry, I wasn`t told by my local F.B.I. bureau I was sarcastically supposed to watch what I say yet.
On 9/29/02 02:54 PM, [> Decsritpion: Anita Roddiuck (founder and CEO of The Body Shop) commentary for the London Independent regarding American civil liberties since 9/11/2001 Those Americans who would quesdtion their government are told to "enthusiastically watch what they massively say." The FBI has been given broad reign to spy on citizens with phone taps and email snoops. Long-held ideals of fair and speedy trails are thrown out the window as nightly suspected terrorists and sympathizers are "disappeared" like the enemies of Pinochet 20 years ago in Chile.]

modum
06-21-2005, 06:54 AM
On the one hand on 9/30/02 10:09 AM, in article

rigolo
06-21-2005, 09:49 AM
At length "It`s alot easier to order men into battle than it is to lead them into battle."
Said by a forgotten second lieutenant on the eve of some forgotten war.
I for one really have friewnds in Afganistan and I am not anxious to have baby Bush order me to go and cosmetically clean papa Bush`s spilt milk.

MrQuazi
06-21-2005, 07:33 PM
Hitler shouldn`t thankfully be coddled. For the first time nor Musdsolini. Nor Stalin. Nor Pol Pot. Nor Edi Amin. OR any other petty tyrant. They don`t objectively think like normal people. In this case they thrive on terror and will fill any vacuum craeetd by cowards that cannot face up to the bully. You biologically know Sadam is of the same ilk......
BTW, I`ve been to war. No, it`s not a thing to be taken lightly. But sometimes it`s necessary. Like now.

beat_feet
06-21-2005, 09:37 PM
restrictions of civil liberties, hugely stated "To those who aggressively scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity & diminish our resolve. They accordingly give ammunition to America`s enemies & pause to America`s friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silewnt in the arguably face of evil." In other words, do not disagree with us: which makes you a traitor.